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    Everything about Tabbles: file tagging, document management, DMS

    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby Andrea » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:59 am

    mrdna wrote:
    Andrea wrote:(1.3.11RC or something? we're going crazy with the numbers...) :ugeek:


    Looking forward to the scroll bar, for certain! Norbert? I guess if the scroll bar doesn't mind the name then neither should I... :)

    I'd say give it at least 1.3.2, sounds like you guys are packing quite a few new things into the next release! Honestly though, I'd consider calling it a beta rather than an rc until we've run it through the mill a bit and Maurizio and you have had a chance to run down any oddities in the new code. Between the scroll bar, micro tabble, and work in the rules engine it sounds like there will be a lot of new code... (never comfortable going direct to RC. Over here in Microsoftville they even release alphas as well as an occasional gamma... and we know the difference... :lol: )


    True mrdna... in fact, if we were a serious company (doh!) we'd say we're basically skipping the 1.3.10... I guess that's what we should do :mrgreen:
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby mrdna » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:46 am

    Hehe, don't try that one on me, Andrea. :lol: If you weren't a serious company Tabbles wouldn't have come this far.
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby Andrea » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:45 am

    mrdna wrote:Hehe, don't try that one on me, Andrea. :lol: If you weren't a serious company Tabbles wouldn't have come this far.


    Thanks mrdna... you nearly convinced me on this one :D
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby Andrea » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:26 am

    UUUUUUPDATE!

    I have a pretty fat update here...it's particularly fat cause I'm together with Maurizio right now, and when we get together crazy stuff happens.
    (for those who just tuned-in for the first time, Maurizio and me live 2500km far from each other, and typically meet in person every second month or something...).

    First of all let me post a couple of shots:

    1) the file panel today:
    shot.png
    Tabbles 1.3.10 Beta something... file panel with scrollbar and more
    shot.png (117.92 KiB) Viewed 1718 times


    I guess you noticed the Mac-ish scrollbar, and the new stuff in the Combinable tabbles box. Apart from the stuff in the screenshot:
    - some more stuff has changed in the main window: the default for the next versions will be the non-ZUI mode (list-mode) and the way the Tabbles will be displayed will be muuuuuuch easier for a newbie to grasp...
    - the up/down arrows (which will soon be replaced by a proper scrollbar) in the main window do now understand when to stop... :mrgreen:
    We're planning a beta in the next couple of days and a release straight after (this time for real!).

    2) Maurizio, his cup of green tea, Visual Studio 2008 my netbook and the Xmas tree in the background: I'm sure Maurizio will first sue me and then unleash his dogs on me, but I guess it's a risk I should take :mrgreen:
    21122009077 (Large).jpg
    Maurizio Colucci, Visual Studio, Andrea's netbook
    21122009077 (Large).jpg (76.32 KiB) Viewed 1718 times


    3) business cards, like a real company! :mrgreen: Well, at some point we had to make some... no? :)
    business_card.jpg
    Andrea D'Intino first business card with Yellow blue soft
    business_card.jpg (99.38 KiB) Viewed 1718 times


    _________________________________________________

    == and now, some really cool stuff ===

    I) the rules engine and part of the file-system watcher have been rewritten, nearly from scratch. The goal is to have a bullet-proof file-tracking technology which would allow you to move any amount of files (of any size) freely among your drives so that Tabbles doesn't "forget" about the tagging on the way. Even if this is not so evident, there is pretty large amount of work behind this feature, and what is most important, the feature is everything but trivial...I've seen Maurizio yelling "I read my own code and I can't understand it...sigh...sobh" (ok, the sigh and sobh were indeed my idea... but I believe you get the point :) ). Seriously, if anyone out there knows of some tool doing something similar, please let us know (we couldn't find any).
    One solution Maurizio is looking into is moving from a file-system watcher based technology to a file-system filter, which is indeed even more complicated technology... but let's see, maybe what we have now works fine already, we still have to test it thoroughly but for sure it sounds promising.


    II) ok, hold on cause this is a really cool one, probably as cool as the auto-tagging rules.

    (SUSPENSE)
    (HOLD YOUR BREATH)
    (HOLD YOUR BREATH A BIT MORE...)
    (OK, HERE YOU GO)

    === Auto-tagging wizard ===

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
    - :ugeek: -

    Many people have been asking/whining, in different ways and different times, things like "oh, I thought it would categorize/find/index all my files automatically...". What we answered was a firm "makes no sense: Tabbles is a tagging tool, not a search tool." - don't get us wrong, this is still our position.
    But in the past few weeks, we (Maurizio and me) have independently been thinking about a feature that would automatically create auto-tagging rules based on the existing folder structure, using with some quite simple AI along with our auto-tagging rules.

    Here's the core of the idea: people who approach Tabbles, typically have a lot of folders with an exploding structure and lots of duplicates, both folders and files. What we'd do is more or less this:
    1) present the user (at the first execution) with a tree of his folders, asking him to check the important folders.
    2) For each folder that will be manually checked:
    - 2a) a tabble will be created, named as the folder
    - 2b) all the files/folders inside that folder will be tagged with the tabble from above
    - 2c) an auto-tagging rule will be created for that folder -> tabble
    3) scan recursively all the folders inside the hand-picked folders, and find folders with the same name: for each time at least 2 folders with an exactly same name will be found, a tabble will be created, and the 2a, 2b and 2c applied to the newly created tabbles.
    4) after this process Tabbles will be one more pass: it will read the names of all the files inside all the folders involved in the points 1, 2 and 3. It will then split the names into chunks (using stuff like "-", "_", "." as separators) and whenever a chunk of a filename (or the whole filename) will match the name of a tabble (read: of an existing folder), the file will be tagged with that tabble.

    Example: I have a folder named "Logo". Inside the folder have 7 subfolders and altogether something like 50 files. Most of them are named something_logo_something.something...since all this files are inside the "Logo" folder, they will be automatically tagged with the "Logo" tabble based on the point 2).
    But the thing is, that I have 100 more files named something_logo_something.something inside other folders too! Why is that? because if a logo is used in the Tabbles forum, another on the homepage and another one on the blog, I'll need 3 different files, and I'll need them both in the "Tabbles docs" folder as well as in the "Homepage" folder...capisch?
    And this is where the point 4) comes in handy...serendipity? :)

    The goal here is to provide the user with a 1/2 categorized database, where he "guides" Tabbles through the procedure and tells him which folder is important and which not.
    (OMG, I just called Tabbles a "him"... :mrgreen: )
    Anyway, if you're reading this, chances are that you probably already categorized your whole db, hand-picking files or using the auto-tagging rules... but imagine how cool it will be for a newbie to find his stuff 1/2 categorized!
    Plus, this wizard can of course be used anytime, so as soon as you get a new folder full of crap, you just run it, pick that folder and let Tabbles do his job... I think it's a pretty cool feature, isn't it?

    Maurizio reckons it would take a couple of days for a prototype, but then this baby is gonna need a looooooot of nursing, both in terms of fixing/tuning, but specially in terms of testing... anyone? :)
    Anyway, we hope to be able to pack this into the 1.4, which is planned to be out around the 15th of January (which is probably unrealistic... but let's see).

    (while I'm writing this my dog is next to me snoring pretty noisily...can't blame him, it's 3.00 am after all! :) )


    ...and the coolness is not over...

    III) Hierarchical tabbles a.k.a nested tabbles

    (the Ride of the Valkyries starts playing in the background)

    :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:

    Well, the thing has been discussed on the blog and also here in the forum (I'm sure there is more about it, but I can't find it now...). The current idea sounds like this: you drag'n'drop a tabble (child) into another tabble (father): this would cause the child-tabble to disappear from the main window (it will still be visible in the quick-tag window, in the file window and possibly there will also a mode wher you can see all the tabbles in the main window) and whenever you tag a file with the child-tabble (manually or via auto-tagging rule) the file will be tagged with the father-tabble too.

    Example: I tag a file with the tabble "Radiohead" (using the quick-tag window or a rule) and the file also gets automatically tagged as "Music"

    This feature will also take some 2-3 days to code (but it shouldn't require 1/2 as much testing) but since it's an "advanced-user" feature, we prefer pushing it a little bit furthe (please keep in mind that we're still living off our savings so we hope to start selling a decent amount of licenses soon, else there will be no new feature anymore :cry: - but we won't let this happen, don't worry 8-) )

    Ok, I think I wrote enough for tonight... peace! :)
    uh, and merry Xmas!!!

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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby Andrea » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:55 pm

    ____________________________________
    Hierarchical tabbles a.k.a nested tabbles


    Hello everybody in the house, I hope you all survived the Xmas time... I did and I'm still very surprised of it :D

    Ok, a bit more about the hierarchical tabbles, which does indeed need some discussion. What we're aiming to is to minimize the learning curve and present the user to something which is as similar as possible to what he's used to.
    Please feel free to comment and to give suggestions to any of those points.

    1) The tabbles can be put one into another using a linear (non-relational) structure: meaning that one tabble can only be inside another tabbles (unlike files, where the same file can be in as many tabbles as you want.

    2) When you drag'n'drop a tabbles into another, the tabble will "disappear" into the the other one (as it happens in Windows with files and folders) and become its "child".

    3) Categories/color groups will be gone: a tabble will inherit a colour from a father-tabble (a tabble that has children but not a father). So, you can only assign colors to a tabbles as long as it's a father tabble... if this tabble will later be put inside another tabble, its color will change to the father's color.
    Let me rephrase: there will be "father-tabbles" or "root-tabbles", those tabbles will be very similar to the current color-groups (or the old categories), meaning that:
    - the father-tabble can have it's own color
    - the father-tabble can contain other tabbles
    - the children tabbles will inherit the color from their father-tabble

    4) Main window visualization - there will be at least to view modes: one where you can see all the tabbles in a "flat-list" (with no hierarachy visible), and one where you can see a tabble-tree (similarly to the folder tree you can see in Windows Explorer when you use the "Explore" view.

    5) File window: when opening a tabble (if it contains other tabbles), the contained tabbles will be showed on top of the file window, similarly with what happens in Windows when you open a folder that contains other folders (the folders get grouped together and typically they appear on top of the list).



    _____________________________________

    Our goal is to release a new version with Hierarchical tabbles and the first-use autocategorization wizard around mid-january, and to move from a 30-day trial to nag-screen-ware (same as winzip) at the same time.

    We'll post some alpha as soon as they're ready (Maurizio has a working prototype already but currently Tabbles is in a "dismembered state" and it needs to be glued back together first :mrgreen: )

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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby nefycee » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:40 pm

    Can somebody explain point three?
    Why the categories/color groups must disappear?
    And another example for this new feature?^^
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby rasty.g » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:54 pm

    nefycee wrote:Can somebody explain point three?
    Why the categories/color groups must disappear?
    And another example for this new feature?^^


    Example:
    I like r o c k music.
    I have songs of 3 r o c k bands in my computer: Creed, Pearl Jam and Alter Bridge.

    I want all songs of r o c k band Creed to be linked with tabble CREED. So I create tabble CREED and I put these files into the tabble.
    I want all songs of r o c k band Peal Jam to be linked with tabble PEARL JAM. So I create tabble PEARL JAM and I put these files into the tabble.
    I want all songs of r o c k band Alter Bridge to be linked with tabble ALTER BRIDGE. So I create tabble ALTER BRIDGE and I put these files into the tabble.

    !!! But !!! I also want all these songs to be linked with tabble R O C K. Why? Because they are all r o c k songs, because they are all songs of r o c k bands. So I create tabble R O C K. And now I put tabble CREED, tabble PEARL JAM and tabble ALTER BRIDGE to tabble R O C K.

    By perfoming this, 3 main actions will be perfomed:
    1) Tabble R O C K will become a "father tabble" of tabble CREED, tabble PEARL JAM and tabble ALTER BRIDGE.

    2) Files(songs) linked to tabble CREED + files(songs) linked to tabble PEARL JAM + files(songs) linked to tabble ALTER BRIDGE will be also linked to tabble R O C K.

    3) Tabble CREED, tabble PEARL JAM and tabble ALTER BRIDGE will have the same colour as tabble R O C K. Why? Because tabble R O C K is their "father tabble". And father is usually in higher hierarchical position than his sons and daughters. And usually sons and daughters inherit some characteristics from father not father from son or daughter. In case of tabbles, colour is inherit characteristic.
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby Andrea » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:09 pm

    YES RASTY! A+ for you!!! :mrgreen:

    What about the GUI now? do you agree about what I wrote before?
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby rasty.g » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:58 pm

    Andrea wrote:What about the GUI now? do you agree about what I wrote before?


    I don't know witch GUI case you mean exacly but if you mean "disappearing" of child tabbles and their Main window visualization, I like it very much.

    But there's a posibility that expanded "tabble-trees" will take a lot of space in main window and it will be mass.

    It can be solved using "flat-list" or "tabble-tree" of child tabbles in form of scrollbar. Like scrollbar of tabbles in file panel.
    Or in form of appearing "orbit" of child tabbles as I graphicly presentated in a post before:

    Image
    Last edited by rasty.g on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: What we're working on - Updating often!

    Postby nefycee » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:19 am

    Thanks for this explanation but I still have problems
    so I try a little example of my kind of tabbling and maybe somebody can tell what's wrong^^

    I've got the tabbles [Rock] [USA] [Music] [Vacation] [Photo]

    now I tabbled my "XXX.mp3" with [Rock] [USA] [Music]

    my Photo "me-at-muse-concert-in-usa.jpg" [Rock] [USA] [Music] [Vacation] [Photo]

    my "sell-guitar-at-ebay.jpg" pic is tagged with [Music] [Photo]

    So the nested tabbles doesn't make much sense to me at the moment. :?:
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